Comments on: Trouble With Standards: Part 3

By: Teachers At Risk » “Add Your Comment -JoinThe Fun!”

Teachers At Risk » “Add Your Comment -JoinThe Fun!” — Fri, 26 Jan 2007 01:29:45 +0000

[...] At the end of his posts, Todd invites readers to “add your comment-enjoy the fun!” That’s exactly what I’ve done. I’ve added my comments, and Todd’s right. I am enjoying the fun. I think Todd and Dan are enjoying the fun, too. I always find it interesting to hear what other people have to say on a given topic. There’s nothing like a good discussion with adults after a day spent talking to teenagers. The Way I See ItPopularity: unranked [?]LicenseThis work is published under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 2.5 License. [...]

By: Elona

Elona — Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:42:01 +0000

Dan, yes a high school diploma is predicated upon what students know and how well students can demonstrate what they know. But, that doesn’t mean that their behaviour isn’t being assessed. Expulsion is the result of an assessment. An expelled student did not pass the expectations for behaviour. He failed to comply with the behavioural expectations which the school outlined. This expelled student can obtain his high school diploma, if he can demonstrate that he knows the stuff, in an alternative setting but not in a regular high school because of his behaviour. Some universities and colleges in Ontario are now looking at students’ behaviour as well their marks when deciding whether or not to admit students. Schools ask for a transcript showing marks but also a recent copy of a student’s report card which has an evaluation for behaviour on it – N, S, G, E. (Granted, no one is getting 85% for co-operation or 54% for inititive. I’ll grant you that.) The argument for looking at the evaluation for behaviour is that universities and colleges want students who exhibit positive behaviours and not just high marks. They are interested in a person’s behaviour, his emotional intelligence because it is an important determinant for success in the real world. At least that’s the way it is here in Ontario.

By: Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:51:33 +0000

It may feel like we’re splitting hairs here but the difference between assessing learning and disciplining behavior is quite large. Expulsion is not the same as assessment.

Basically, what I’m trying unsuccessfully to imply here, is that if a student can prove they know the standards, it doesn’t matter how well they’ve been socialized. I don’t care if they can’t hold their place in a line by the 12th grade. Whether a student graduates highschool should be entirely predicated upon what they know not who they are.

The alternative, I promise, would be very very messy.

And Todd, damn, dude, thanks for your evenhanded triptych on standards. I’ve given you grief in the past for your stance, and probably will in the future, but I cannot fault your evenhandedness and fairplay. That only became clear to me yesterday.

By: Elona

Elona — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:38:28 +0000

Dan: Should schools assess student behaviour? Should schools assess the behaviour of students who fight, steal, lie bullying,etc. Should these students get feedback from the school regarding their behaviour. Yes, they should if only because schools have an obligation to provide a safe learning environment for students and a safe working environment for staff. I don’t care what you call it, but when a student gets suspended or expelled that student has been assessed. Oh yes, Dan, could you please teach me how to dodge a speeding ticket.

Todd: Ditto.

By: Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:39:53 +0000

I was referring to our brief conversation here, though from your comment, it seems I misunderstood you. We seem to be more closely aligned on assessing socialization vs. teaching it. Good show.