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	<title>Comments on: Interpretive Standards</title>
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	<link>http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/</link>
	<description>Challenge The Status Quo</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10274</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10274</guid>
		<description>Yeah, "then" is certainly an adverb and not a coordinating conjunction. Looking in a few more books and asking more people, you are absolutely right, mrc. Much to my chagrin, I'll admit that &lt;strong&gt;C&lt;/strong&gt; is the correct answer and I already talked to the kids about it. However, everyone I asked said the same thing I did, that they wouldn't mark it wrong and they've seen it plenty of times in published work.

My larger point in all this, though: Do tests like STAR ensure that teachers prepare kids for life or for more school? Where's the meaning in all this? Is English/Language Arts full of fixed standards that have definite correct and incorrect answers? How do we deal with subjects that are more full of shades of gray than stark black and white? That's why I have a hard time with STAR (despite the fact that I'm a big force behind any kind of excitement about the test on my campus).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, &#8220;then&#8221; is certainly an adverb and not a coordinating conjunction. Looking in a few more books and asking more people, you are absolutely right, mrc. Much to my chagrin, I&#8217;ll admit that <strong>C</strong> is the correct answer and I already talked to the kids about it. However, everyone I asked said the same thing I did, that they wouldn&#8217;t mark it wrong and they&#8217;ve seen it plenty of times in published work.</p>
<p>My larger point in all this, though: Do tests like STAR ensure that teachers prepare kids for life or for more school? Where&#8217;s the meaning in all this? Is English/Language Arts full of fixed standards that have definite correct and incorrect answers? How do we deal with subjects that are more full of shades of gray than stark black and white? That&#8217;s why I have a hard time with STAR (despite the fact that I&#8217;m a big force behind any kind of excitement about the test on my campus).</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10255</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 01:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10255</guid>
		<description>mrc visited the blog, then he left a comment.

Do you have a problem with that sentence? I don't. Would you mark that wrong on a student's paper? I wouldn't. Would you fire an employee who wrote that sentence? I wouldn't.

"You'll come to a blue gate, then you'll have to press the intercom button." "I'll deliver the management system, then I'll work on creating the interface." First he did this, then he did that. That's how I'd write it.

First he did this. Then he did that. Sure, that's fine, too. This isn't worth the time or energy of STAR to assess.

This is akin to calling a color "white" and getting it wrong because the color is really "ice." I'd be pissed off if that  question kept me out of "proficient." Even more pissed off if that question meant ineligibility for AP classes (if a school uses STAR scores for AP eligibility).

Good job with the grammatical terms, mrc. You're right on, but A is acceptable and regularly seen (which lends credibility to it being grammatically correct since grammar regularly changes according to popular whim - latest examples include the acceptance of split infinitives and the willingness to end a sentence with a preposition; if STAR ever moves to test those, I'm done with it).

P.S. Thinking about this more, it seems a more correct grammatical structure when you shorten the clauses: I wept, then I laughed. Compare that to: I wept because I left my backpack in the locker room at school, then I laughed because I realized I was standing right next to the locker room door. Hrm -- I still think they are both just fine. A friend of mine is a grammar stud, so I'll ask him about this tomorrow. I think the fact that I'm fuzzy here (not that I'm on top of grammar theory, but I pay an awful lot of attention to such things) implies that it's not absolutely essential students understand this particular distinction. I'm by no means the be all end all of grammar questions, I'm just saying...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mrc visited the blog, then he left a comment.</p>
<p>Do you have a problem with that sentence? I don&#8217;t. Would you mark that wrong on a student&#8217;s paper? I wouldn&#8217;t. Would you fire an employee who wrote that sentence? I wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;ll come to a blue gate, then you&#8217;ll have to press the intercom button.&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;ll deliver the management system, then I&#8217;ll work on creating the interface.&#8221; First he did this, then he did that. That&#8217;s how I&#8217;d write it.</p>
<p>First he did this. Then he did that. Sure, that&#8217;s fine, too. This isn&#8217;t worth the time or energy of STAR to assess.</p>
<p>This is akin to calling a color &#8220;white&#8221; and getting it wrong because the color is really &#8220;ice.&#8221; I&#8217;d be pissed off if that  question kept me out of &#8220;proficient.&#8221; Even more pissed off if that question meant ineligibility for AP classes (if a school uses STAR scores for AP eligibility).</p>
<p>Good job with the grammatical terms, mrc. You&#8217;re right on, but A is acceptable and regularly seen (which lends credibility to it being grammatically correct since grammar regularly changes according to popular whim - latest examples include the acceptance of split infinitives and the willingness to end a sentence with a preposition; if STAR ever moves to test those, I&#8217;m done with it).</p>
<p>P.S. Thinking about this more, it seems a more correct grammatical structure when you shorten the clauses: I wept, then I laughed. Compare that to: I wept because I left my backpack in the locker room at school, then I laughed because I realized I was standing right next to the locker room door. Hrm &#8212; I still think they are both just fine. A friend of mine is a grammar stud, so I&#8217;ll ask him about this tomorrow. I think the fact that I&#8217;m fuzzy here (not that I&#8217;m on top of grammar theory, but I pay an awful lot of attention to such things) implies that it&#8217;s not absolutely essential students understand this particular distinction. I&#8217;m by no means the be all end all of grammar questions, I&#8217;m just saying&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mrc</title>
		<link>http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10250</link>
		<dc:creator>mrc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddseal.com/rodin/2007/02/interpretive-standards/#comment-10250</guid>
		<description>Wait a minute!  Sentence A is not grammatically correct.  This is part of what the STAR is testing, and I think it's valid.

The sentence A is a run-on of the "comma splice" variety, wherein two independent clauses are held together by a comma.  Separate the clauses, and you will see that each stands on its own.  To join the two sentences, we need an "and" or some other coordinating conjunction.  The word "then" is a conjunction, I think, but functions as an adverbial rather than a coordinating conjunction when used correctly.  I'm a math teacher, so I'm not 100% sure if this is the right terminology.  And this may not be a hard-and-fast rule, but it seems like students should at least be aware of it.

Personally, I would go for "William Herschel moved from Germany to England in 1757 and then in 1766 became an organist at a chapel in Bath."  But since that isn't one of the possible answers, I feel that the choice of C is clearly better than the grammatically-incorrect A or the slight changes in meaning brought about by B and D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a minute!  Sentence A is not grammatically correct.  This is part of what the STAR is testing, and I think it&#8217;s valid.</p>
<p>The sentence A is a run-on of the &#8220;comma splice&#8221; variety, wherein two independent clauses are held together by a comma.  Separate the clauses, and you will see that each stands on its own.  To join the two sentences, we need an &#8220;and&#8221; or some other coordinating conjunction.  The word &#8220;then&#8221; is a conjunction, I think, but functions as an adverbial rather than a coordinating conjunction when used correctly.  I&#8217;m a math teacher, so I&#8217;m not 100% sure if this is the right terminology.  And this may not be a hard-and-fast rule, but it seems like students should at least be aware of it.</p>
<p>Personally, I would go for &#8220;William Herschel moved from Germany to England in 1757 and then in 1766 became an organist at a chapel in Bath.&#8221;  But since that isn&#8217;t one of the possible answers, I feel that the choice of C is clearly better than the grammatically-incorrect A or the slight changes in meaning brought about by B and D.</p>
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